"A friendly, informal discussion group."

The Yale Student Roundtable hosts weekly discussions over pizza where we try to expand our understanding of a variety of issues. Sometimes two hours isn't enough to get to the bottom of an issue, so this blog is an opportunity to remind yourself of the major points of our discussions and add your comments.

Saturday, September 27, 2008

Where should all the ibankers go?

  • How should prospective ibankers at Yale adjust their plans to account for the current financial crisis?
  • Why do 40% of Yalies choose to work in finance and consulting after graduation?
  • What's the best way to put your Yale education to use?


This week’s discussion topic, always of interest to Yalies, seems particularly appropriate in light of the Wall Street collapse, as well as a recent flurry of Roundtable emails concerning a recent controversial article in the American Scholar by William Deresiewicz (“The Disadvantages of an Elite Education”). Every year a full 40% of all Yale graduates start work in consulting or finance. The central question of the night was to what extent these individuals are fulfilling their own potential and that of their Yale education.

So why do so many Yalies choose to spend 100 hours a week moving money back and forth? To be sure, there’s a financial incentive—ibankers can expect to bring in a handy salary—but can we really believe that 40% of our graduates are interested in nothing but a hefty paycheck? We raised a number of alternatives tonight. For one, Yalies tend to be goal-oriented, and to a certain mentality ibanking represents the culmination of a long structured path. It’s a way to guarantee success without high levels of risk—a possibility that’s increasingly appealing as socioeconomic diversity increases at Yale, and more students are concerned about supporting their families and paying their student loans. On the other hand, the popularity of consulting in particular may have more to do with the orientation of our skills towards more creative and analytical thinking methods (rather than specialized knowledge). Finally, we considered that the finance/consulting culture may be self-perpetuating, and therefore independent of any specific cultural phenomena at Yale.

But there may be more subtle cultural factors leading Yalies towards the investment banks. Has our nation lost its moral fortitude, leaving college students uncertain of what career would best reflect their personal ethos? Are we victims of a national culture idolizing the pursuit of money above all else? Perhaps Yalies intuitively recognize that consulting and ibanking may soon some of the supplant traditional avenues to financial and political power.

So why are so many of us uncomfortable with this trend? Do we have an instinctive aversion to following a preset track? Perhaps we feel that Yalies ought to be inspired visionaries willing to take risks for the sake of their ideas. We want Yale to be a community full of students with, as Joe put it, “intensity and forcefulness of character.” We don’t want Yale to feel constraining; we don’t want to feel guided down a secure track.

But Beth raised the point that the difference between working for the Peace Corps and McKinsey may be one of scale rather than efficacy. Similar skills are employed in both cases, and both in their own way contribute to global prosperity. And, as John Behan noted, it’s unfair to define ibanking as diametrically incompatible with the qualities we’d like to emphasize in our student body. After all, the financial system is essential for the survival of the global economy, and Yale seems to prepare its students well to manage that system. But how many Yalies are genuinely passionate, “intense and forceful” about their banking careers? Probably not 40%.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

Where does the 40% figure come from? I've heard a lot of figures tossed around in the YDN (I don't know what their factchecking policy is), but the data that Yale collects from graduates suggests otherwise. The information from the Office of Institutional Research says that 24% of students employed after one year are in "Business/Finance," (http://www.yale.edu/oir/open/pdf_public/W119_SrStdy_Table_9.pdf). And, only 73% of students seek employment within a year after graduating (http://www.yale.edu/oir/factsheet.html#Graduate_Activities). So, 40% basically doubles the actual figure. What's also worth noting is that business/finance isn't the largest employment area for the most recent class data's available for (2006) - education is. In 2004, it was business/finance, but in 2002 it was education again. So the picture might not be as "grim" as suggested here - and that's if you accept that people seeking challenging, high-paying jobs that open up further opportunities for graduate work, entrepreneurship, philanthropy, and social work is "grim."

Unknown said...

This is unfortunately not in response to the previous comment, but is still relevant despite it. At the meeting, I mentioned that my primary complaint was that many people see Yale as a means to a career, or simply as the "logical next step". So one concrete solution might be to replace the question on many applications that asks "Why do you really want to come here?" with "Why do you really want a liberal arts education?" This seems to make sense based upon some of the statistics floated around last night (People who turn down Yale almost universally go to another top school) and because this problem seems to exist at many top schools. Of course, like any essay, a lot of bullshit would follow, but it might be a start. I'd be curious to know what people think of the idea.

Thanks,
Sam

Benjamin said...

Sam,

I'd love to see what students do with that question. Of course, it presupposes that the applicant really does want a liberal arts education, which (as you mentioned) would lead to bullshit in at least 40% of applications. And it's not as though those students truthfully answer the "why Yale" question--I doubt too many of those responses include "to boost my resume so I can become a rich banker."

In response to the first comment--the employment statistics you reference are somewhat ambiguous and don't include, for example, the number of graduates in consulting firms (which can be distinct from finance, and might be included under many of the other listed categories). That said, I can't name the source of the original statistic, which I believe was supplied by C. Lesch; but in any case, we know from our peers that the number is large enough to represent a significant cultural phenomenon.

Anonymous said...

I cannot speak for ibanking, since I know much less about it, but I think another relevant question with regards to consulting at least is if students go into the field to learn skills that a liberal arts education could not give them. I'm happy that Yale didn't have business and marketing majors but for all those students with goals of working in education, NGOs, etc (which in this conversation at least seems to be considered a more honorable goal), the thing that is most needed is people with management and strategy experience. Bringing more efficiency, financial prowess and long-term planning could turn around organizations that need it immensely.

I think the question is: How can we help Yalies who go into consulting (and perhaps even ibanking)with the intention of changing careers after 2-3 years and using those critical skills in other fields keep that passion and idealism alive?

Anonymous said...

Alex,

Judging from my own roommates and most of my friends, most Yale students do not (yet) have the passion and idealism to which you refer. They (or perhaps "we," since I'm thinking about doing consulting work,) are looking for money, security, and work in a field that interests them.

I think that this attitude reflects a sort of complacency that many Yale students find unavoidable. I believe that passion can only come from extraordinary, inspirational experiences that most Yale students simply have not had.

Anonymous said...

Nick,
Thanks for your response, my intention was certainly not to imply that everyone going into consulting is like that. I a recent graduate working at a consulting firm and there are definitely those who want to work in the business world long-term. But you would be surprised how many people go into it with long-term goals outside of business, be it local politics, education, or non-profit work.

Also, there are a lot of Yale students with passion, I would have to disagree with you on that one. Perhaps I was just lucky in terms of who I met and spent time with, but I have been truly impressed time and time again by what people are committed to and to what lengths they go to try and make it happen.

Another thing to think about is how many 21 year old Yale seniors have absolutely no idea what they want to do. It's extremely early in ones life to make a definitive decision about a career or even grad school. Deciding to go into ibanking or consulting shouldn't be mistaken for complacency. For some its a well thought out strategic move: trying out something that keeps a lot of options open.

And to bring it back to the question "Why do 40% of Yalies choose to work in finance and consulting after graduation?", if you want to reduce the percentage of Yalies going into ibanking and consulting (which by the way is MUCH lower than Harvard) there needs to be other options going through UCS. It's hard to apply to a job you don't know exists...